In this episode, we dive into the unique challenges faced by pre-service teachers and their mentors as they embark on the journey of becoming educators. From classroom management struggles to balancing theory with practice, we explore the obstacles that can feel overwhelming. But it's not all hardship—join us as we share real stories of triumph, personal growth, and professional development. Learn practical strategies for overcoming challenges, building resilience, and fostering growth, both in yourself and the students you teach. Whether you're just starting out or guiding the next generation of teachers, this episode offers valuable insights into navigating the dynamic landscape of education.
Good morning, good morning. Friends and faculty out there. Tony Pellegrini with elevating the classroom a legacy of teacher preparation at Suu, our podcast series is dedicated to celebrating and exploring the century long tradition of teacher preparation here at Southern Utah University. This series will highlight the vital relationship between pre service teachers and experienced master mentor teachers in K 12 schools by sharing stories and insights from both sides of these partnerships, the podcast aims to underscore the impact of collaboration on teaching and learning in Utah and beyond. Our theme today is challenges and triumphs navigating the teaching landscape. I hope we're able to address common challenges faced by pre service teachers and mentors, strategies for overcoming those obstacles and stories of personal and professional growth. And we're just tickled, tickled to have Leslie Orton here from the Iron County School District and Jamie Hamlin from the SU use faculty called Teacher Education faculty. Jamie, would you take a moment and start with us. Tell us a little about yourself, and then we'll turn some time to Leslie Sure. So my name is Jamie Hamblin. I was an elementary teacher in the classroom in fourth and fifth grades for 10 years, and then I went and worked at another university with the district that I came from for three years. And I have been lucky enough to be at Suu, working in the elementary ed teacher preparation program for the last five years. Leslie please, and I'm Leslie Orton, and I am a resident of Cedar City my whole entire life, and I am in my 30th year of teaching, so I've seen it all. Amen. Amen. Woo hoo. And we've got Laureen Graves, who's our co host for all of our podcast series. And can you just say hello and maybe get us started with our questions? Laureen, yes, of course. We're so happy to have you. Jamie and Leslie, we're we love talking about great mentors, because we know that sets a foundation for a great teaching journey, if, if they can, if, when we really try to protect their student teaching experience, so that they come out feeling so happy that they chose to become a teacher. So I think the first thing we'd love for you to to comment on are is starting to identify some common challenges. So what are some of the most common challenges that pre service teachers and their mentors face as they navigate the teaching landscape. And then how do they those challenges manifest in some of the day to day experiences? I think the biggest thing coming out of college, and they've had a little bit of experience with the block and things like that, but I think the thing that terrifies them the most is that classroom management, so coming in and taking over a class, and you don't know what the classroom management is going to be in each classroom, and if it suits your personality, because some are very structured and some are a little bit loose. And so trying to balance that personality so that they can have a successful experience. And so I think it's nice to turn that over to them, let them try some things, but also, as a mentor, I want to make sure that my class is still the way they need to be when I take them back. And so it just really is like having a plan, letting them, you know, experiment with a few things, but making sure that we as a team can keep that management in control, because that is what makes a sex a successful student teaching experience, because if you can't manage the kids, you can't teach, yeah, and there's no learning happening. I love that you said it's a team and and we really do rely on our mentor teachers to help gage when it's time to kind of hand over that lead teaching position. And so I love when our mentor teachers co teach for a time and then, and then allow them to to have that lead spot. But that's great. Jamie, do you have anything to ask? I agree 100% I think classroom management. I think you read about it a lot, and you talk to different people, and you hear about it until you actually do it. It's a little bit different. But that, along with just juggling everything that a teacher has to juggle, especially an elementary teacher, managing is one thing, and they have their nice lesson plan that they've written, and we've gone through all these things, and they get out there, and it's like, I really have to implement this. And as an elementary teacher, you don't ever get a break, because, you know, right? And so it's really an eye opening experience for them to not only plan for this, but then I have to teach that, and you're being the person who's not only delivering the lesson but managing and helping the kid who's crying because their shoe is untied and the gum stuck in the hair, and the kid who walks in five minutes late every day and misses that you're juggling everything. And so I think those two things are very tricky for brand new teachers coming out absolutely and I've been visiting with student teachers and mentor teachers this semester, and that classroom management is something that all of our students, like you mentioned Jamie, are concerned about. But to the each companionship that I visited with has been very productive in starting from. Where the teachers rules are, and going from there, following those and to a person, all of our student teachers say, Yes, I'm going to steal some of these things as I get out and start teaching on my own next year. And can I say one more thing, I think, too, a lot of them that you we see these awesome master mentors like Leslie out in the field, and they watch them, and they're like, oh, yeah, I can do that. That's yeah. And then they try it. It's much harder than what they think. And so I think sometimes comparing themselves to like my mentor, can do it, and I am brand new. I think it just takes some time. So helping them realize that you're at the beginning of their journey. And Leslie's a veteran, you know, she's been doing it effectively for years, is something that is sometimes a challenge for our new teachers, and it is a journey, isn't it can be new every year. Doesn't matter how many, how many years you have under your belt. A new class is a new class, and you have to be ready to take what you get, and you're going to do make mistakes, and you're going to change things, just like a new student teacher is, so they can see that in you? Yeah, let me. Let me move on with effective strategies. Can you talk to us about specific strategies that you've found to be effective in helping our pre service teachers overcome some of these obstacles during their training, whether it's in block or whether it's even in practicum classes before that and in their early teaching experiences. Can you share any practical tips that mentors could implement? Well, I think it's important to start with letting them just observe observations, you know, watching that, and then maybe doing some co teaching and trans so they can transition into that solo teaching. But also, I think sometimes if you can just turn a small group over to them and so they can get just a small group and experiment and be able to do some things with teaching before you give them the whole class, especially, it just depends on their personality, too. Some are gung ho and ready to take it on, but if you can see that they're hesitant, I think it's really important that we ease them into it. And so I think a small group instruction is really good, and then I always share my own life stories and experiences and just let them know that they are not alone and that we have all had our days, and let them know that we're not, you know, we're not perfect, and we whatever you're feeling we have felt. And so how can we, how can I help you with that before we move on to Jamie? Can I just ask, maybe not necessarily clarifying question, but may go down the road at a little different path. You do have a PLC you practice right? Yes, with in your school, with your PLCs, do they get opportunities to visit with your student teachers, to be able to maybe share and some additional Yes, they are. They are invited to all of our PLCs as a student teacher. And so yeah, they can come in, and it's nice to hear the feedback and from all sides, from all the teachers and I work with a great team. So I would want, I would want, I want to share them with us, with my student teacher, because they have a lot of great things to offer. What a great start. Like Irene said a few minutes ago, we love that teaming. We love that working as a team. And boy, you know, sometimes, yes, your name is on the door, yep, but you are a part of couldn't do it without them. Oh, my nose, gracious, no, I've been shutting you down. No, not at all. And I agree. We actually have our students go and attend a PLC during the block before they're expected to attend during student teaching. And the feedback we get is amazing of what the teacher said that they never even thought of before, and it's just really good for our students to see. But in thinking of effective strategies that help pre service teachers. There's something that I think my students get really sick of hearing me say, but I always will tell them, we've got to reflect and then make an intentional adjustment. And they they're hard on themselves. I don't know what it is about elementary teachers, but they're perfectionists by nature. And we'll talk about, you know what went well? And they're like, I don't know, but I have this laundry list of things that I want to change, and so we always will say we want you to focus on what you did well first of all, and see what you're doing there, and then pick one thing that you make an intentional adjustment each week or each day, or whatever that we're doing to just get a little bit better. And I found we have, we've had amazing mentors that will help them focus on that one thing or help them narrow down. Yeah, maybe you need to work on proximity. Yes, maybe positive queuing, but first we've got to get your attention signal down, and they'll help them find that. And I think that's been one of the most effective strategies that we've used, is making them reflect. But reflection isn't enough by itself. They have to make an intentional adjustment and just work on one thing at a time to actually make a change. And you didn't make anybody cry today. So you are, you are doing great, especially you. We're glad you're not crying. Jamie, I love that you said that, because we've both been supervisors for these student teachers. And sometimes at the beginning, you have so many things that you want to correct, and it can get a little bit overwhelming, so focusing on just what they did positive, and actually making them say that back, and then picking one thing so we don't overwhelm because have a hard time after it's like and and lots, lots of good things, we can overwhelm them too. But I know that's one of the things that the student teachers say to me. Say, I just want real, specific feedback. I want to know something I can prove. Because our students are so conscientious, they want to continue to prove, even though I'm watching them saying, You're meeting our expectations and the state's expectations, you're doing great, but they still want to know how I can improve. So I love that about our students, yeah, and I think one thing at a time when there's a lot, they don't improve, anything, just overwhelming, yeah, and the growth that they comment on at the end, when you focus on one thing at a time, I have made so much growth, and that's a awesome thing to hear, and that's good. Just rules for life, too, right? How to how to improve and progress. So we have these student teachers that have come from the classrooms, they've been learning from textbooks, from professors and, you know, maybe practicing on each other, but now taking that theory and putting into practice. So how can pre service teachers better integrate that theoretical knowledge with the practical classroom experiences, and then, what role do mentors play in facilitating that balance, right? Well, I mean, I think it's so important that we always are reflecting on our experiences. And then I do feel like sometimes we do come out of college with all of this stuff, and some of them come in and maybe they're a little over confident, and they're like, I have all these ideas or all these things that I want to try and in theory, once in a while, that that is not a problem, but it's coming in and maybe trying not to step on toes and really accepting, because I don't want the teacher to think that, the student teacher to think they have to leave being like me, like you're you do not have to be like me. You don't even have to use my ideas. But in here with my students. This is what we're doing. And so being able to have that conversation, be able to, you know, let them talk about their challenges. You know, we're colleagues at that time, and so let's talk about it. And this is the way it's going to be. And this is where I will let you have freedom to do the things that you really, really want to do, that's excellent. And I know our block classes, Jamie, the elementary block, does an excellent job of teaching them the best practices and theories all of that, and they've learned that along the way through several classes, of course. But you guys are all about application. Block is all about application. Okay, let's take what we learned here, and then how do we apply this? And so Jamie, you want to speak to that? Yeah, I agree with what Leslie said. I think you can have an idea in your head how things go. And sometimes we find at the beginning, when students start going out there a little bit, what's the what's the right word to say, but maybe critical of like, oh, this is, I know exactly how it's supposed to go. And we're like, well, try it. And they're like, that did not go to the way that I thought it would. And so I really think that the best way to balance the theory and practice. I am a big believer. You don't learn much until you're actually applying something. And so, you know, we try to teach them strategies, and we'll say, go out and use this in the classroom this afternoon, we're going to work on tasking. We're going to model that for you. We're going to do it as a group with your peers, and then we want you to go out and use that in your lesson this afternoon. And I think the power of that comes back when they get feedback from the mentor about what actually works with that group of kids. Because, as we know, every group of kids is completely different, and what works one year doesn't work the next year, or what works before Christmas doesn't work after Christmas, right? And so especially with young children, and so it's something that we're always trying to balance and get feedback on. And I think that's the most powerful is when we come back the next class period, we talk about, how did it go? And and they'll share what their mentor shared with them. Or I was successful in this way, but this part didn't work, and we can tweak it a little bit and keep trying. So I really think the balance comes from feedback is huge. But I also think giving them a chance to apply it and get feedback on that right away is really important. Absolutely, it's a continual process, isn't it? It is a continual learning process. I'd like to get personal for just a moment or two here and invite and I'll model for you first, if it's okay, because I think all of us can do this. I'd like each of us to share a story from our own experience that illustrates a significant challenge that I faced, you faced in your teaching journey and how you overcame it. What lessons did you learn that might benefit others? I'm going to go back 100 years. I'm going to go back 30 years and to when I started teaching. I felt kind of like Jamie mentioned a moment ago. I felt, hey, I know how to do this. I know what's what this child needs. I'm really not so worried or concerned about what the parents think that needs to happen with this. And boy and Jamie's smiling at me that that changed awfully fast, but they they let us know pretty fast that, hey, they want to at least be listened to as parents, or they'd love to be a part of the team, or, you know, we're all we're all cheering and rooting for our learners, for their children. And so that's one thing that's a challenge that I had, you know, kind of coming in. Hey, I know what. I took Jamie's classes. I went through block. I know just what these kids need. But parents are a huge, a huge part of that is that something I don't want you to get too deep or too uncomfortable with that. But do you have something like that in your past that you would be willing to share? Whoever would like? Well, I was just thinking mine was actually with student teaching, and I did not have a great experience. And by the time I was done with that, I was like, this is not the career for me. I'm not, you know, I didn't feel supported. It was, it was rough. And what I learned and took from that is, when I have a student teacher in my classroom, I will be very sure to make them, no matter what the experience is, to make them have a good experience and at least leave feeling like they learned something, because they all deserve that, and we all are so different in the way that we teach if we're only looking at one way, how do we make somebody else successful? But it just was really, it was, it was traumatizing for me, and I am, I'm a quiet person. And so I think also I waited like, just tell me what you want me to do. And I wasn't more of that proactive, I'm ready to get in dive. Just, I was more like, just tell me what to do, because I don't want to step on your toes. And so I've learned when those kind of kids come into my room, how I know exactly how they feel. And so I want to make sure that we make them feel comfortable and have a good experience, because they deserve it. I am so grateful that you accepted our invitation to David, and I want to tell you thank you. When I talk with my when I share with my learners, I say, Listen, you've got your learners in your classroom from generally nine to three, when they get in your classroom, they need to be safe. You really shared with me today that it's not just our students that need that safety. Our student teachers need that safety. They can be challenged and stretched and all that we want that, but we want them to feel comfortable and safe and in the same too, just like our children, do you guys, ladies, need to visit? I love what she said. Feel supported, and I'm sorry that was your experience. I know I always appreciate our principals, because they they generally make those decisions, you know, of who will be mentored, mentoring our student teachers. And I feel like there you can be a fabulous teacher, but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a fabulous mentor. There's certain dispositions that we need and their skills of mentoring that aren't just you don't just automatically become a great mentor because you're a great teacher. So they're kind of two different things, but when we can think about and we're teaching the student teacher as we're teaching the students and letting them know our thought process as we're teaching, you know, and it's, it's, it's a lot more, but it's, it is a skill. And so thank you for for developing that skill so well. And my similar, mine is very similar. I remember going through the block, and I would, I had a wonderful mentor teacher that was at fiddlers elementary 100 years ago, and I not quite 100 years ago, when I went through and I remember I could, I could copy her attention signals, and I could kind of copy what she did. And it worked. These first graders responded to me great. And I got up into student teaching, and I was in a fifth grade classroom, and I watched my mentor teacher, and he did the attention signal, and everyone just I thought, I can do that. That's easy. I can do that. And the very first lesson I'm teaching, I did his attention signal, and nobody even looked up. I mean, nobody even responded to me. And I realized that he just was laughing, you know. And I remember in that moment thinking, Okay, I've got to find my own way. And just as Leslie alluded to earlier, I had a great mentor at the first university I taught at that would always say, I don't want you to become a mini me to the students, you know. And I'm like, I say that to my students every semester. I don't want 38 mini Jamies. I want you to be yourself. You've got to find yourself as long as it's effective teaching for kids. And I think that was my big kind of personal growth story as I realized I can't, I can take good things from my teachers and these peers that I see, but I've got to, I've got to be authentic to me. As long as I'm effective for children that I've got to be authentic to. I love that. I love that you've got, Jamie, you've got to live with yourself your whole life long. You've got to be true to yourself. Additionally, I think districts want who you are. They don't want who you say you are or think you are. You know, six months from now, they want to see that same person, maybe a slightly better teacher, but they want to see that same person as they come to the as they come down the road, yeah, I think with my nearly 10 years in the special education room, I learned the first couple years I came home pretty emotional sometimes, and Even in tears just how hard this was, and I had to really make that shift. And this is something I teach all of my students. Is for one, see the good. See the good in teaching and in every student. And sometimes you have to you refresh every day, because that's you can't carry behaviors from yesterday over to the next day. So see the good and to focus on relationships. And I feel like if, if our student teachers do those two things, they'll set themselves up for an enjoyable career of teaching, because it is going to be hard and there's, there are ups and downs, but if you're if you train yourself to intentionally you. To see the good, you'll find it. And if you want to see the bad, you'll find it too. But if you intentionally focus on that and building relationships, it will be you'll enjoy it, and it will be a good thing. So that's what I have learned across the years. So the next we kind of want to turn to our community and the role of community, how is important as community support, whether it's from peers or administrators or family, when it comes to navigating the challenges in teaching. I know one of the assignments our student teachers have is to meet as a peer coaching group several times across their student teaching, and I know that that's a good place for them to vent and to share ideas and and that's an evidence based practice that we we have them do. But can you provide some examples how such support has made a difference for pre service teachers? Well, I just think teaching is overwhelming, and we need support, you know, and we have to lean on each other so that we can navigate the profession and we understand things that others don't. And so, right? Right? I'm sorry. Please forgive me. No, like, sorry. Even my own family, you know, when you, when you take home a story, and they just kind of look at you like you made that up. And I'm like, I cannot make that up. That is something I can't make up. And so I, you know, I really value the people that I can talk to that really understand how hard and taxing this profession is, and you need those people to surround you, or otherwise you emotionally will not be okay. And so it is nice to have those people that you can share with and just let they let you know you're you're not alone, like we know, we know exactly how you feel, and that is how we get through day. Today is just knowing that those people that understand what we're going through have our back, going back kind of what Laureen said just a moment ago. Establishing those relationships is absolutely critical, I think for our, for our, for our students, it's incumbent upon them to reach out and make those relationships wherever they can. Yes, it may, hopefully it's with a mentor teacher and maybe the administrator, but it can be the bus driver, the lunch lady, you know, parents, those relationships are absolutely critical, and they only build us up rather than tear us down, right? Yeah. So those relationships are not just with students, but your colleagues and everyone surrounding you, yeah. And even into the community family, you know, the families of the students and and put, you know, pulling the community into your classroom, and taking your community out into or your classroom out into the community, all of those things enhanced learning. I would, I would agree with everything that Leslie said. When we look at pre service teachers, I definitely think the principals we work with some of the best principals and mentors that you could ask for, and I think their support in showing that they want them there, and they're there to help them along the way, and they understand that, no, you're not a perfect teacher, as Leslie said, there isn't one you know that we want to make sure that that they're getting that support is great. I've also noticed when we take our students away, we often will, we'll say we're meeting at this place, if anyone wants to come for dinner. And I can't tell you how much it lights up pre service teachers, when someone will say, who are you? You guys all a group, you know, we're sitting at a big table, or whatever it is, and we'll say, all these are they're learning to become teachers. And we've had people applaud or come and say thank you, and it just lights it just absolutely lights them up. I think sometimes, from the outside looking in, if you aren't a teacher and you don't get it, as Leslie was saying, teaching might look easy. And we laugh when, when people say that, because you haven't tried it, if you think it's easy. And so when, when it's and it isn't always appreciated, maybe in the way that it should be. And so when people appreciate that in the community, whether it be a family member, peers, supporting each other, mentor, teachers and principals are huge. But even other people that you know reach out and say, Oh, thank you so much for for what you're doing. You're going to make such a difference in the lives of children. And I wish my five year old was in your class. Things like that. It really, I think that's really, it means more to brand new teachers, and probably all teachers than I think people even realize. Jamie, thank you so much, and thank you, Leslie as well. I we've probably taken too much of your time, too much of our listeners time, but I would like to just ask each of you, Leslie and Jamie, any words of wisdom for our sentence or two or short phrase, words of wisdom for our mentors, for our student teachers that are going out any less. Yeah, wisdom, I would say, I would say it's the most rewarding job that you'll ever have. It's not easy. It's it's very hard. And so go into it for the right reasons. Go into it because you're willing to put kids first, and you're willing to be that safe, consistent adult in a kid's life and make a difference. And then I always tell my students, if you're not smiling every day. Kids are hilarious, and especially elementary kids, they're so much fun. If you're not smiling every day, you might be doing it wrong. So have fun with it. Enjoy it. Let the bad times roll off your back and really focus on those positive because there's far more positive than there is negative. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Yeah, I agree, and I just think they pre service teachers need to know that teachers are vulnerable. To and so you know, just know that when you're coming in our classroom, you're nervous. We're nervous too. So you know, we're and we're in it together. And I just think, if you can have that team building, and if nothing else, you know what, bring a dog to school. Because I brought my new puppy today, and that's all I needed to have. My kids think I was the greatest. So bring a puppy to school. Drama teacher, I'm gonna drama teacher. And they tell me, never, don't put kids and don't put animals on the stage. But I think just, it was just a quick show and tell, and he and she was out of there. But, man, they were just like, your dog is so cute. So you know what? If you have a bad day, bring your bring up your neighbor's puppy, bring your neighbor's puppy, whatever, whatever you need to do. I love it. I love it ending on puppies. I mean, what could be better? I love it. But we are. We are so grateful for our our principals and all of our mentor teachers in our in in the schools that support su students. We are. We are very grateful. So thank you so much, Leslie, and thank you, Jamie, for preparing our student teachers who do such a fabulous job. So in conclusion, elevating the K 12 classroom are a legacy of teacher preparation at SUU will not only honor the long standing tradition of excellence at Southern Utah University, but also we hope it will shed light on the powerful connections that shape the future of education through engaging content and compelling stories, we hope this podcast will provide valuable insights into the transformative journey of preacher service teachers and their mentors celebrating their shared commitment to fostering educational excellence. Thanks so much, everyone.